耶鲁大学开放课程—哲学：死亡.04.Open.Yale.course—Philosophy：Death.DivX-YYeTs人人影视 [字幕转换助手

我们一直在讨论这样一个问题
We've been talking about the question,
用什么论证可以证明灵魂的存在
What arguments might be offered for the existence of a soul?
我们首先会想到的一类
And the family of arguments
则是那种
that we're considering initially are arguments
被称作推理的论证
that get known as inference
或叫做 最佳解释推理
or inferences to the best explanation.
其思路是
The thought is that
存在一些有关我们自身的亟待解释的事物
there's something about us that needs explaining.
但单从物理的角度 我们无法对其进行解释
We can't explain it in terms of, in purely physical terms.
所以我们需要借助他法
And so we need to appeal to,
我们需要假定灵魂存在
we need to posit, the existence of, a soul.
我们待会儿再回到这个论题上
Now, I'll come back to that sort of argument in just a minute,
现在我们暂且先把它放在一边
but let me bracket that for a moment
开始学习柏拉图
and say something about Plato.
从下周开始
Starting next week,
我们要学习柏拉图的对话 斐多篇
we're going to be looking at Plato's dialogue, the Phaedo.
尽管在讲到斐多篇时
And so although I'll be saying a great deal
我会向你们详尽介绍其中的内容
about the Phaedo once we turn to it,
但现在 我还是想先花一两分钟的时间
I want to just take a minute or two
做一个简短的引言
and say a couple of introductory remarks.
我不知道你们当中有多少人
I don't know how many of you
之前未曾读过柏拉图的作品
have not read any Plato before,
但是 还未拜读过柏拉图的同学们
but for those of you who haven't,
我敢肯定你们会喜欢上他的
I actually think you're in for a treat.
柏拉图是历史上最伟大的哲学家之一
Plato is not only one of the greatest philosophers in history,
人人影视
https://www.sodocs.net/doc/5a9931886.html,
并且 他使用对话体形式来阐述其观点
he wrote his philosophy in the form of dialogues.
即 以戏剧为表现方式
That is to say, plays,
其间各种人物悠闲地或坐或站 集聚一块儿
in which various characters sit around or stand around
探讨各种哲学观点
and argue about philosophical positions.
我们要学习的这篇对话 斐多篇
The particular dialogue that we're going to reading,the Phaedo,
就将场景设定在苏格拉底临死前的一幕
is set at the death scene of Socrates.
想必你们都知道
As I'm sure you know,
苏格拉底被人指控
Socrates was put on trial,
以教唆雅典青年的罪名 被判处死刑
condemned to death for corrupting the youth of Athens--
也许 罪名还包括
and perhaps, among other things,
和青年们讨论哲学
for arguing philosophy with them.
狱卒把毒芹汁端给他
And he's given hemlock, poison,
他一饮而尽 然后生命就此终结
and he drinks it and he dies.
这是一个历史性

的事件
Now, this is a historical event.
苏格拉底有一大群朋友和学生
Socrates had a circle of friends and disciples
和他讨论哲学
that he would argue philosophy with.
而柏拉图就是他的学生之一
One of his disciples was Plato.
柏拉图随后形成自己的思想
Plato then grew up
并写下了许多哲学著作
and wrote philosophical works.
柏拉图本人通常并不在自己的对话篇里出现
Plato does not typically appear in his own dialogues.
即使出现了 也仅仅是个次要的角色
Or, if he does, he's only there as a minor character.
实际上 如果我没记错的话
In fact, if I recall correctly,
柏拉图曾提到
Plato's mentioned as not
苏格拉底死时自己并不在场
being there on the day that Socrates dies.
那么 我们如何辨别
So, how do we know,
在戏剧中
if we've got this play,
谁代表柏拉图本人的立场呢
whose position is Plato's position?
答案是 苏格拉底
And the answer--the short answer--is, Socrates,
即剧中苏格拉底的角色诠释了
the character Socrates in the play, represents Plato,
戏剧作者自己的哲学观
the author of the play's, philosophical views.
如果这是在古代哲学的课堂上
Now, in fact, if this were a class in ancient philosophy,
我们可能要将讨论的内容延伸得更广一点
we'd have to complicate that picture,
因为柏拉图后期的哲学观点
because it's fairly clear that by late in Plato's career Plato has philosophical views
同他老师苏格拉底的观点迥然不同
that are very much unlike the views of his teacher, Socrates.
而且 柏拉图一直没有在对话篇中现身
And yet Plato continues to not appear in the dialogue.
而苏格拉底仍继续保持着主角的身份
Socrates continues to be sort of the hero.
所以 学者们一直在争论
And so scholars debate which of the views put forward
在对话篇里的苏格拉底提出的观点中
by Socrates in which ones of the dialogues represent views
哪些属于历史上那个真实的苏格拉底的
that belong to the actual historical figure Socrates,
哪些是戏剧中的苏格拉底的
and which of the views put forward by the character Socrates
哪些虽在对话篇里说是苏格拉底的观点
in which of the dialogues represent views
但却并不符合真实的苏格拉底的原意
that are actually not held by the historical Socrates,
即实际上是柏拉图
but were instead held by the historical Plato
假借苏格拉底之口来表明自己的观点
and were merely put in the mouth of the character Socrates.
学者们是如此鉴别的 柏拉图早期对话作品
Scholars distinguish between the early Platonic dialogues,
即 在所谓的苏格拉底的对话中
the so-called Socratic dialogues,
主角苏格拉底的观点
where the thought is, those are the views of Socrates,
与历史上那个真实的苏格拉底的思想吻合
the actual historical fig

ure.
而就柏拉图的晚期对话作品而言
And then there's the late dialogues,
尽管苏格拉底也频频出场
where even though Socrates appears,
大多数学者认为 那些观点很可能
most scholars believe those are probably not the views
并不是真实的苏格拉底所持有的
that the historical Socrates actually believed.
对中期对话作品的鉴别 就比较困难
You have middle dialogues where you have to worry about
因为你无法明确观点与人物的对应关系
whose views are whose.
但是我们不用担心
But we're not going to worry.
这不是在古代哲学课课堂上
This is not a class in ancient philosophy.
所以 出于这门课程的目的
So for our purposes,
我们无需深究
we don't have to ask ourselves
苏格拉底在对话中的某个观点
when Socrates in the dialogue says something,
到底是属于那个真实的受死之人苏格拉底的
is this a view that the dead man Socrates actually would have held
还是属于已故之人柏拉图
or is this simply a view that the dead man Plato
通过作品中苏格拉底这个角色所表述的
put in the mouth of the character Socrates?
就我们这门课程的目的而言 这都无关紧要
For our purposes, it won't really matter.
我会把苏格拉底提出的
I'll take every view that
所有观点都当做是柏拉图的
Socrates puts forward as a view of Plato's,
尽管我会随意地
though I'll typically sort of run back
将两者交替着说
and forth sort of in a careless fashion.
我会说
I'll say,
"柏拉图认为"或者"苏格拉底认为"
"Plato holds" Or "Socrates argues,"
因为就这门课的目的而言两种说法是等效的
because for our purposes it's all the same.
但是 还有一个地方
But there's one other
我要提醒你们
complication that you've got to be warned about,
那就是 由于这些是对话作品
which is this. Because these are dialogues
且它们全都采用了哲学论证的形式
and they take the form of philosophical arguments,
即 人们先提出观点 然后
people put forward views and then,
在讨论的过程中
over the course of the discussion,
改变自己的关于事物想法
change their minds about things.
随即收回之前的话
And they take them back.
也许类似的情形
And maybe something similar
在苏格拉底身上也发生过
is going on when Socrates says something.
因为 毕竟柏拉图也没有说
Because, after all, this isn't Plato saying,
这就是我明确相信的观点
"Here's what I believe explicitly."
他只是在写一个关于哲学的戏剧
He's just writing a dramatic play about philosophy.
所以有时候我们会这样想
And so sometimes we'll find ourselves thinking,
看 这里有一个论证
"You know, there's an argument here
是由苏格拉底提出的
that Socrates is putting forward.
它也许不是一个很好的论证
But maybe it's not a very good argument."
但

至少
And it will, at least,
它值得我们偶尔停下来 琢磨一下
be worth pausing periodically to ask ourselves,
也许柏拉图也意识到这不是一个好论证
maybe Plato realized it wasn't a very good argument.
通过了解那些由苏格拉底提出
We can often better understand the dialogues by seeing Socrates
但他自己也觉得不充分的观点
as putting forward certain positions
我们可以更好地理解这些对话作品
that he does not think are altogether adequate.
他会调整 修改那些观点
And he modifies them or revises them
或者以引入新观点
or introduces new positions
来解决先前他遇到的难题
to deal with some of the difficulties that he was setting himself to be open to earlier.
我之前说过 不要过多拘泥于细枝末节
As I say, don't worry about any of those details now,
但在阅读对话时应该谨记 细节很重要
but it's a point to keep in mind as you read the dialogues.
以上就是我对斐多篇做的简介
So that's all I really wanted to say by way of introduction.
考虑到下周的课程
You should start reading the Phaedo
你们应该提前开始阅读斐多篇了
for next week.
我们会在下周开始讨论斐多篇
We'll be talking about the Phaedo starting some time next week
外加下下周的一部分时间
and we'll continue the
或者全部时间 继续
discussion of the Phaedo for at least a bit of,
讨论斐多篇
maybe all of, the week after that.
对于柏拉图这块 我会做特别对待
In the case of Plato, I'm going to make an exception.
通常 我会提到我们的阅读材料
Normally, I will mention our readings,
但是我不会花过多的时间
but I won't spend a lot of time
来讨论细节问题
actually discussing them in detail.
这也就是为什么你们不得不
That's why you have to
把课后阅读当做上课的补充
think of the readings as complementing the lectures
或者把听课当做课后阅读的补充
or think of the lectures as complementing the readings.
这次不是向你们发些名著导读那么简单了
I'm not just giving the Cliff Notes, as it were, of the readings.
对于斐多篇
Nonetheless, in the case of the Phaedo,
我还会花更多的时间来说明诸如
I am going to spend more time actually saying,
我认为首要论证是这样的
"Here's what I think the first main argument is.
让我们从前提和结论着手
Let's try to reconstruct it in terms of
重新构建这个论证
its premises and its conclusions.
这是我的一些反驳观点
Here are some objections I raise.
接下来是柏拉图提出的另一个论证
Here is then the next argument that Plato offers.
我们试着研究一下前提条件
Let's try to get that up in premises."
即便如此 我也不会花时间大声朗读
Even there, I won't be spending time reading out loud
斐多篇的各大长篇
long passages from the Phaedo.
但在某种意义上
But

, in some sense,
相对于其他阅读材料 我会对斐多篇作出
I'll be giving a closer commentary of the Phaedo
更为细致的解说
than I'll do for the other readings.
为了下周的课程 你们应该开始阅读了
So, still, what you should do is start reading it for next week.
斐多篇的主题
The topic of the Phaedo,
如前所说 被设定在苏格拉底受死当天
as I say, is set on Socrates' last day.
在对话的结尾处
At the end of the dialogue,
他饮下毒芹汁 走向死亡
he drinks the hemlock and he dies.
也许 一点也不足为奇的是
And perhaps unsurprisingly,
直到生命的最后一刻 他都在和朋友们
what he does with his friends up until that moment is,
探讨灵魂的不朽性
he argues about the immortality of the soul.
最令人惊叹的是 苏格拉底并不苦恼
Quite strikingly, Socrates is not upset.
他根本不担心自己即将死去
He's not worried about the fact that he's going to die.
反而以某种方式迎接死神的降临
He actually welcomes this in a certain way,
因为他坚信灵魂是不朽的
because he believes his soul is immortal.
所以 支持和反对
And so, in addition to philosophical arguments for and against
灵魂的存在与不朽的论证
the existence and immortality of the soul,
以一个感人至深的死亡场景告终
we end the dialogue with a quite moving death scene,
这简直就是西方文明史上
one of the great death scenes,
最伟大的死亡场景之一
if we could call it that,
如果我们可以这样说的话
of western civilization.
总之 如前所说 下周的安排就是这样
Anyway, as I say, that's all for next week.
现在让我们再回到这个问题上
So let's return now to the question,
我们怎样论证灵魂存在
"How might we argue for the existence of the soul?"
起初 上节课上
Initially, last time,
我们探讨了一类或者说是
we considered a set of or
一小类论证 这些论证的基本观点是
a subset of arguments that basically said,
我们肯定不仅仅是些物质实体
"Look, there's got to be more to us than just material objects.
人 不是机器
People can't just be machines,
因为机器不能推理
because machines can't reason.
机器不能思考
Machines can't think."
而我也说过
And I said,
这看上去并不是一个令人信服的论证
"That doesn't seem to be a compelling argument."
毕竟 会下国际象棋的电脑似乎是会推理的
After all, chess-playing computers, it seems, can reason.
它们对我的战术了然于胸
They have beliefs about what I'm likely to do next.
它们拥有极力实现自身目标的欲望
They have desires about the goals that they're trying to achieve.
它们推算怎样才能最彻底地打败我
They reason about how best to defeat me.
需要指出的
And it's worth pointing out that--
上次课我并没有提到这一点
a point that I didn't make last time

--
需要指出的是 电脑
it's worth pointing out that, what the computers,
至少最棒的国际象棋电脑 并没有做什么
at least the best chess-playing computers don't do.
实际上 没有电脑真正会做这些事情
Indeed, no computer actually does this.
你可能认为 一台电脑
You might think that what a computer,
或一台下棋电脑所做的工作就是这样
what a chess-playing computer does is just this:
计算出所有可能的下法
it calculates every possible branch,
以及与之对应的各种可能的棋局
every possible game from here on out.
然后它再斟酌一下
And then it sort of works backwards.
恩 在这些情形下我能胜出
"Oh, these are the ones where I'll win."
所以只有当它能够预见到
And so it only makes the move
自己接下来20步得以制胜的棋路时
where it can sort of look ahead 20 moves,
它才会继续往下走
right, and see which branches have the computer winning.
但国际象棋的程序并不是这样工作的
That is not the way chess-playing programs work.
原因很简单
For the simple reason that
棋局的潜在变数相当之大
the number of possible chess games is so huge,
以至于计算机根本无法将其完全计算出来
that computers can't calculate it.
因为这需要它们数以千年的工作量
They'd be busy for thousands of years.
我们可能会这么做
We can do that sort of:
当你和你七岁大的侄子或侄女
When you play tic-tac-toe
下三子棋的时候
with your seven-year old nephew or niece,
你就会先预测 然后想
you just look ahead and work backwards.
要是我这样下
"Well, if I do that,
他就会那样下
he'll do that
如果他走了那一步 那他就赢了
and he'll do that and then he wins,
所以我不会走这一步 对吗
so I won't do that," right?
但是在下国际象棋时候我们不会那么做
But we can't do that with chess.
因为实在有太多盘棋了
There's just too many games.
那么 下棋程序
So how do chess-playing programs,
特别是最好的下棋程序
and particularly the best chess-playing programs,
是如何工作的呢
how do they work? Well,
它们的下棋方式同你们如出一辙
they play chess the same way you do.
它们会想 哪些棋子的威力更大
They have various ideas about which pieces are more powerful
需要重点庇护
and so they're more important to protect.
它们会想到
They've got various ideas
采用哪种策略 获胜几率更高
about which strategies tend to be successful.
以及这些策略会带来哪些风险
What sorts of dangers come along with them?
如果你是一名严谨的棋手
If you're a serious chess player,
你可能还会研究国际象棋史上最伟大的棋局
you might study some of the great games of chess history.
的确 当人们编写游戏程序时
And indeed, when they program these things,
会在这些程序中
the programmers will
一局

接一局地
feed in game after game after game
输入历史上那些最伟大的棋局
of the great chess games in history.
然后 用这些知识武装好自己之后
And then armed with all of that,
你就能做到最好
you sort of do your best.
当你下输了一盘时
And when you lose a game,
你也许会在心里记下
you kind of make a mental note to yourself,
这次实在太糟糕了
"That really screwed me up.
下次再换个别的什么试试
Let me try something different next time."
你会尽量避免使用那些着数
And you avoid those sorts of moves.
下棋程序也是这样工作的
That's how chess-playing programs work as well.
跳转一下话题 我先来对此做一番评论
Jumping ahead, let me make a remark about this,
因为这和我们几分钟后
because this is going to be relevant for something
将要讨论的东西有关
I'll get to in a couple of minutes.
这意味着什么呢
What this means--what this,
其含义就是
the implication--is that
如果你正在玩一个不错的国际象棋程序
if you're playing a great chess-playing program,
要想推测出程序下一步的着数
it's not as though the way to tell
而对游戏程序进行全方位的研究
what it's going to do is
似乎并不是个有效的方法
to study its program and think it through.
这些程序的设计者
The people who design these programs,
很可能本身就棋艺高超
presumably fairly decent chess players themselves,
他们
the people who design these programs,
在玩这个程序游戏时
when they're playing the programs
并不会在心里想着
they're not thinking to themselves,
既然这个程序是我编制的
"Let's see. I programmed this computer so
所以 如果我把皇后移到这里
that when I move a queen forward to this space,
它就会出相
it should come out with a bishop."
这种想法根本无用
That's hopeless.
因为程序会不断依据过去
Because the program is constantly revising its strategies,
有效无效经验修改其策略
in light of what's worked and what hasn't worked in the past.
当程序员或其他任何人 玩这个程序时
When the programmers play these programs or indeed when anybody,
比如 一个优秀的棋手 在玩这些程序时
a good chess player, plays these programs,
战胜它们的最好办法就是 问问自己
the best way to try to beat them is simply ask yourself,
现在怎么走才最为明智
"What's the best move to make right now?"
推算计算机接下来最可能的动向才是制胜关键
The odds are the computer's going to make the best possible move.
将计算机视为一名象棋健将
Treat the computer as though it were just a great chess player.
事实上 最棒的象棋程序已经是老辣的棋手
And indeed, the best programs are great chess players.
尽管曾一度出现过
There was a period of time in which,
强劲的象棋程序
although there were decent, chess

-playing programs
无法战胜顶级人类棋手的情形
couldn't beat the best chess-playing humans.
但是那种局面在几年前
That ended some years ago when
以象棋程序击败象棋大师而告终
the best programs began to beat grand masters.
而现在
And now it's in fact the case
最优秀的象棋程序可以称得上是所向披靡
that the best programs can beat pretty much anybody.
当前的国际象棋世界冠军
In the current world champion of chess,
弗拉基米尔?克拉姆尼克
I think Vladimir Kramnik,
就在今年12月被一个国际象棋程序击败
was defeated in December by a chess-playing program.
克拉姆尼克当时只是把它当作一个强劲的对手
So Kramnik's simply treating this as an awesome opponent.
其所作所为堪称最佳行棋之道
And that's the best way to deal with these things.
好了 我们还是把这些思考暂且先搁在一边
All right. So, bracket some of those thoughts for a moment.
稍后再对其继续讨论
We'll come back to them a little bit later
当我们开始探讨这样一个问题
when we start talking about the question,
机器有创造能力吗
"Could machines be creative?"
我先亮出我自己的观点
Tipping my hand,
显而易见
it seems pretty clear that
这个问题正好能够
that seems like the right
对国际象棋程序做出解释
thing to say about these chess-playing programs.
于是我们便产生了这样一个疑问
So we had the question,
机器能推理吗
"Could machines, could machines reason?"
虽然还未曾出现
And although we don't have machines
具有推理能力的机器
that can reason about a lot of subjects yet,
这一点相当明确
it seems pretty clear.
但仿佛 机器
It seems like the natural thing to suggest, machines
在某些领域具有推理能力是再自然不过了
can reason in at least some areas.
所以 人不是物理对象
And so it doesn't seem plausible
这一观点似乎并不能站稳脚跟
to suggest that we people must not be physical,
因为毕竟
merely physical, because after all,
我们人能推理而机器不能
we can reason and no machine can reason.
不 机器可以推理
No, machines could reason.
但这引发了灵魂辩护者的
But this prompts a different
一个迥然的进程
move on the part of the defender of souls.
也许论证不应该是
Perhaps the argument shouldn't be,
我们必须相信灵魂
"We have to believe in souls
因为所有的物理对象都不能推理
because no mere physical object could reason."
而应该是
Perhaps the argument should be,
我们不得不相信灵魂
"We have to believe in souls
因为所有物理对象 所有的机器都没有感觉
because no mere physical object, no machine could feel."
我们人拥有情感
You know, we have emotions.
会彼此相爱 会心生恐惧
We love. We're afraid.
会拥有烦恼 也会欢欣愉悦
We're worried. We'll get elated.
还会

沮丧消沉
We get depressed.
所以 或许这个论证应该这样表达
So perhaps the argument should go
对 思考
"Yeah, yeah, thinking,
机器可以思考
that's the sort of thing a machine can do.
我们称之为思维机器
You know, we call them thinking machines.
但是感觉能力 却是任何机器都不具备的
But feeling, that's the sort of thing no machine could do.
没有任何纯粹的物理对象
No purely physical object
可以感觉到什么 可以有情感
could feel anything, could have emotions.
因为我们拥有感觉事物的能力
And so, since we clearly do feel things,
所以我们一定比物理对象高级
there must be more to us than a physical object."
现在 我想我们有理由认为
Now, I think it is plausible to suggest
与象棋计算机的例子不同
that unlike the case of chess-playing computers,
我们现在还没有能感觉事物的机器
we don't yet have machines that feel things.
但问题不是 我们有没有这样的机器
But the question isn't, "Do we?"
而是
The question is,
能否存在这样的机器 它可以感觉到某物
"Could there be a machine that could feel something,
可以有某种情感
could have an emotion of some sort?"
我们来谈一点科幻作品 想一想
So let's go a little science fictiony and think about
在科幻电影中
some of the robots that
出现过的一些机器人
have been shown in science fiction movies,
在科幻电影
some of the computer programs
以及科幻小说等其他科幻作品中
that have been shown in science fiction movies,
出现过的一些计算机程序
science fiction novels, or what have you.
我小时候
When I was a kid
有一部叫"迷失太空"的电视剧
there was a television show called Lost in Space.
我已经记不起
I'm afraid I've forgotten
剧中机器人的名字了
the name of the robot that was on that show.
但在这档电视节目中
But as it was a TV show and so sure enough,
每一集 都会戏剧性地发生一个新的危机
every single episode, some new dramatic danger would take place.
于是机器人就会开始全速前进 大声疾呼
And the robot would start whizzing and binging and shout out,
"危险 罗宾逊指挥官"
"Danger, Commander Robinson!"
"危险 威尔?罗宾逊"
"Danger, Will Robinson!"
就是这样 "危险 威尔?罗宾逊"
That was it. "Danger, Will Robinson!"
机器人好像一直都很担忧
It seemed as though the robot was worried.
再举个更近一点的例子
More recent example.
你们可能有人读过道格拉斯?亚当斯的书
A number of you have probably read some of Douglas Adams' books.
如 银河系漫游指南以及其续集
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and the sequels to that.
书中有一个叫马文的机器人
There's a robot in those books, Marvin,
我想可以用"消极"一词来概括他的特点
who's --depressed, I think is the simple word about it.
他很

聪明
He sort of--He is very smart.
对于宇宙万物都有着自己的思考
He's thought about the universe,
他认为人生毫无意义 所以行事消极
thinks life is pointless and he acts depressed.
他把自己的想法告诉另一个机器人
He talks to another robot,
后者的情绪也变得低迷
depresses the other robot.
最后自杀了
The other robot commits suicide.
故事就讲到这里
All right.
"消极"用在机器人身上 似乎再自然不过
Seems natural to ascribe depression to Marvin, the robot.
因为他的言行举止就是如此
That's how he behaves.
再来举个我最喜欢的例子
Or, my favorite example,
2001太空漫游(电影名)
the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey.
我先申明
Now, I've got to tell you,
没有看过这部电影的同学们
for those of you who have not seen this movie,
我要剧透了 好吧
I'm about to spoil it. All right?
所以请你们捂住耳朵
So you cover your ears.
太空漫游
In 2001:A Space Odyssey,
一些迹象表明
we get some kind of indication
另一个星球上有生命存在
that there's life on another planet.
一切都很神秘 所以我们
It's all very mysterious and we
派遣一艘飞船去调查星球上的印记
send off a spaceship to investigate the markings,
以及那些从其他星球传来的无线电信号
the radio signals from the other place.
这是一项非常重要的任务
This is a very important mission
因此 一个被命名为哈尔的计算机程序
and so there is a computer program named Hal
被安排协助飞船的运行
that helps run the ship
减轻飞船上
and takes a lot of the
人类宇航员的负担
burdens off of the part of the human astronauts who are on the ship.
哈尔有一个目标
Hal's got the goal--
从理性和欲望等角度来说
in terms of reasoning and desires and so forth and so on--
哈尔的目标就是确保该任务能成功完成
Hal's got the goal of making sure the mission is successful.
但哈尔看似有凭有据地认为
But Hal thinks to himself fairly plausibly,
人类只会威胁到任务的执行
humans really screw things up.
这是一项至关重要的任务
This is a very important mission.
除掉人类 以确保任务的顺利执行
Let's kill the humans to make sure they don't screw things up.
其中的一个宇航员
One of the astronauts,
发现了它的阴谋
discovering the plot,
试图阻止哈尔
attempts to stop Hal.
而他唯一
And proceeds to do the only
能使让哈尔不伤害到自己的举措
thing he can do to defend himself against Hal,
就是关闭该程序 基本上也就是杀死
which is shut down the program, basically killing--
如果我们可以那样表达的话 杀死哈尔
if we can talk that way--killing Hal.
与此同时 一切都在进行中
Meanwhile, as all this is going on,
哈尔和那个叫戴夫的人类宇航员交谈
Hal and Dave, the human astronaut, are talking to each other

.
哈尔最终意识到将要发生什么事情了
Hal realizes what's going on.
它试图阻止戴夫 这一点完全可以理解
Hal tries to stop Dave, understandably enough.
当戴夫开始关闭它的电路时 哈尔说
And Hal says, as Dave begins to shut down Hal's circuits,
我害怕 我害怕 戴夫
"I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave."
他害怕什么
What's he afraid of?
他害怕死亡
He's afraid of dying.
赋予哈尔恐惧感 这似乎也是自然而然
It seems perfectly natural to ascribe fear to Hal.
哈尔准确地表现出你所期望他
Hal is behaving in exactly the way you would expect him to behave,
或称为它 理应表现的行为方式
or it to behave,
如果它确实感到恐惧的话
if it felt fear.
它有理由恐惧
It's got reason to be afraid.
它表现得恰如其分
It's behaving appropriately.
它告诉我们它很害怕
It's telling us that it's afraid.
于是自然而然 我们就会说哈尔感到害怕
It seems natural to say Hal's afraid.
现在 你可以继续补充这方面的例子
Now, you could continue to sort of fill in examples like this.
正如我所说 的确
As I say, of course,
这些都只是科幻作品而已
they're all science fiction,
但我们仍然可以从中有所领悟
but the fact that we can grasp--
我们并不会直接走掉 说
and it's not as though we go running away saying,
哦 不 这实在是太不可思议了 对吗
"Oh no! This was outrageous," Right?
计算机会说 我害怕
"It makes no sense to
这简直说不通
think a computer could have said, I'm afraid.
它会有试图杀死要将程序关闭的人等其他举动
"It makes no sense to think that it could try to kill the people
这些完全说不通
who are trying to shut it down and so forth."
以上的想法在我看来 是一种偏见
That seems to me to be prejudice,
正如我上次所说
as I said last time.
这边人们可以自然而然地说
The natural inclination here is to say,
这些计算机程序 这些机器人能感受情感
"These computer programs, these robots are feeling emotion."
人人影视
https://www.sodocs.net/doc/5a9931886.html,
但那边却没有理由相信
But there's no particular reason to think
电路之外有其他什么东西在运转
there's anything going on there than the circuits.
它们只是些物理对象
They're just physical objects,
只是些机器上的程序罢了
programs on machines.
如果这是正确的 如果这种说法正确
If that's right, if that's the right thing to say,
那么 我们不得不说
then what we have to say is,
我们不需要诉诸灵魂来
"We don't need to appeal to souls in order to
解释情感和感觉
explain emotions and feelings.
物理对象可以有
Physical objects could have,
纯粹的物理对象可以有
mere physical objects could have,
情感和感觉
emotions and feelings.
所以 我们没有理由假定灵魂存在
So we have no reason to posit the existence

of a soul."
现在 我认为二元论者对这一答复的
Now, I think the best response on the part of the dualist to
最好回应 就是区分感受的两方面
this reply is to distinguish two aspects of feelings,
情绪的两个方面
two aspects of emotions.
比方说 感觉恐惧的行为方面
There's the behavioral aspect of feeling fear, let's say.
行为方面是
The behavioral aspect is
当你意识到环境中的某种事物
when you're aware in the environment of something
对你构成危险 会伤害或者摧毁你
that poses a danger to you, that will harm you or destroy you,
或在这个计算机程序的例子中 关掉你
or in the case of a computer program, turn you off,
于是 你采取各种
then you take various kinds of behaviors
反击行动 以解除危险
in opposition to that to try to disarm the danger,
抵消其负面影响
to try to neutralize it.
信念 目标 对策 规划
This is just a matter of beliefs, goals, responses, planning,
诸如此类
the sort of thing that we
象棋计算机已经能够做到
already saw the chess-playing computer can do,
这些情感的行为方面
that behavioral side of emotion.
认为机器人可以做到这一点
It seems pretty plausible
似乎再自然不过
to think robots could do that.
物理对象可以做到这一点
Physical objects could do that.
但是 这个反驳的关键点在于
But, and here's the crucial point of this objection,
情绪和感受还存在另一面
there's another side or another aspect to emotions and feelings.
感觉的知觉
It's the sensation of what it's feeling like--
这就是为什么我们最终还是称之为感受
that's why we call them feelings after all--
即 内心的感觉
what it's feeling like on the inside,as it were,
与所有这些行为层面的东西同时发生
while all this behavioral stuff's going on.
当我害怕时
When I'm afraid,
我会产生某种
I have this certain sort of
湿冷的感觉 又或者 我的心脏猛跳
clammy feeling or my heart's going poundingly.
血流加速
Your blood is racing.
当你害怕时
When you're afraid,
你会有胃部下沉的感觉
you've got this sinking feeling in the stomach.
当你沮丧时
When you're depressed,
会有那些我们可以称之为体验的感觉
there are these, well, we could call them experiences,
虽然"体验"一词也比较含糊
though the word "experience" is also somewhat ambiguous.
所以 我们暂且这么称呼它
So--we'll use it for the moment--
每种情绪到来 都会产生体验
there's an experience that goes along with each emotion.
当你害怕时 就会产生恐惧的体验
There's what it feels like to you when you're afraid.
当你担心时 就会产生烦恼的体验
What it feels like to you when you're worried
或是沮丧 或是愉悦 或是坠入爱河
or depressed or joyful or in love.
这样一个在我看来极具影响的想法
And the t

hought, and I think this is a pretty powerful thought,
就是 即便机器人表现出行为层面
is that even if the robots are behaving behaviorally,
即使它们已经获得情绪的行为面
they've got the behavior side of the emotions down,
但是它们并没有感受面
they don't have the feeling side at all.
当你开始萌生这些想法时
Now, once you start thinking these thoughts,
你会发现 不止情绪如此
there's no need to restrict yourself to emotions.
各种各样的缺失
The missing stuff,the missing thing is there
皆是如此 在以如此熟悉的单调套路进行着
in all sorts of familiar humdrum ways as well.
比如说 我现在正盯着观众席上的椅子
So right now I'm looking at the chairs in the auditorium.
它们是蓝色的
They're some kind of shade of blue.
仔细思考 再看看
Think about--Look at some places
教室里其他地方 比如窗帘是红色的
in the room where the curtains with their red.
想一想 看见红色有什么感觉
Think about what it's like to see red,
对红色的知觉是什么样的
the sensation of seeing red.
现在 我们来辨别一下
Now again, we've got to distinguish between
被我称为看见红色的行为方面
what I'll continue to call the behavioral side of seeing red
和看见红色的体验方面
and the experiential side of seeing red.
我们很容易就能想到
It's easy enough for us to
制造可以分辨红色和蓝色的机器就能达到目的
build a machine that can tell red from blue.
只要能让它检验出
It just checks and sees
物体反射的光的频率
what kind of light frequencies are bouncing off the object.
我们就能制造一台
So we can build a machine
可以分辨红球和蓝球的机器
that could sort red balls from blue balls.
我儿子的一个玩具机器人就有这种功能
My son has a little robot that can do that.
但是 我们可以想想
Still, when you think to yourself,
机器的内在是什么样的
what's the--what's going on inside the machine?
当机器以电子眼
What does it feel like to be the machine while it's looking at--
对着那个红色的球 它会有什么样的感觉
while it's got its little light sensors pointed at--the red ball?
它有没有看见红色的知觉呢
Does it have the sensation of seeing red?
我想你们会说
What I suppose you want to say,
当然我也想这么说
certainly what I want to say is,
不 它根本没有那种知觉
"No, no, it doesn't have that sensation at all."
它只是根据光频来分辨颜色而已
It's sorting things based on the light frequencies,
并没有看见红色的体验
but it doesn't have the experience of seeing red.
我要表达的意思 可能非常晦涩
What we're trying to get at here is--it can be very elusive,
但我相信你们大多数对它并不陌生
but I imagine most of you are familiar with it.
有时你会就一些问题问自己
It's the sort of

thing you wonder about when you ask yourself,
如果某人天生失明
"If somebody was born blind,
他是否可能知道看见颜色是什么感觉
could he possibly know what it's like to see color?"
他可能是个科学家
He might be a scientist
通晓光的原理
and know all sorts of things about how light works.
知道你用了多少多少频率的光
You use such and such frequencies,
是哪些物体 然后你递给他一个苹果
and which objects, and you hand him an apple
他会说
and he'll say,
哦 这是个很红的苹果吧 是这样吗
"Oh, it must be very red," Right?
他可能会用一个光检测器对准苹果
Maybe he points his little light detector at it
仪器显示计量结果
and it reads out.
数据表明 这光是多少多少频率的
It says, "This is such and such a frequency."
然后他会说出 噢 这苹果超红耶
And he says, "Oh, this is a very red apple,
比西红柿还要红 诸如此类的话
much redder than that tomato" Or whatever.
就算如此
But for all that,
我们还是认为
we've got the notion,
他不但看不见红色
not only is he not seeing red,
他甚至无法想象看见红色是什么感觉
he can't even imagine what it's like to see red,
因为他从来没有过类似的体验
never having had these experiences.
一旦明白了这一点 我们就会发现
And once you start to see this, we realize,
生活中处处都是这种体验
of course, our life is filled with this aspect.
事物的颜色
Things have colors.
事物的声音
Things have sounds.
事物的气味
Things have smells.
体验的定性方面
There is the qualitative aspect of experience.
我之前就提到过
And the point that I started with earlier,
关于情感内在方面的观点
about the internal aspect of emotions,
情感不仅是外在的 也是内在的
is it's not just out there, but inside as well.
我们能感受到特定的内在感觉
We have certain kinds of sensations inside our body,
典型的如恐惧 愉悦 沮丧 等等
the characteristic sensation of fear or joy or depression.
好了
All right.
所以一个可能的回答是这样的
So the suggestion then might be this.
物理对象无法感受到
What no physical object can get right,
对事物的定性体验是什么样的
because no physical object can get at all,
因为它们根本无法去感受
is the qualitative aspect of experience.
这才是我们自问时想要抓住的方面
That's the aspect that we're after when we ask ourselves,
看见红色是什么样的感觉
"What's it like to see red?
闻咖啡和尝菠萝又是怎么样的感觉
What's it like to smell coffee or to taste pineapple?"
哲学家们
Now, it's pretty--Philosophers
有时候把这些称作 感受性
sometimes call these things qualia,
因为他们认为 事物存在定性方面的概念
because of the notion of the qualitative aspects of things.
我们的体验包括定性的

特性
Our experiences have qualitative properties.
所以可能有人会说
And the suggestion then might be,
没有哪个物理对象
no physical object,
没有任何机器能够拥有定性的体验
no mere machine could possibly have qualitative experience.
但是我们有 所以我们不仅仅是物理对象
But we've got it, so we're no mere physical object.
我们不是机器
We're no mere machine.
好了
All right.
以上就是反方的观点
Now, that's the objection.
这是个很好的反驳
It's a pretty good objection.
接下来的问题是
And then the question is,
物理主义者能如何回应
"What can the physicalist say in response?"
物理主义者们现在
Now, the best possible
能做出的最好的回答就是
response would be for the physicalist to say,
从这个意义上去理解 就能造出一台
"Here's how to build a
具有意识的机器
machine that can be conscious in this sense.
即 一台可以有定性体验的机器
That is, have a qualitative experience.
应该这么造
Here's how to do it.
然后 如何如何
Here's how to--
正如我们可以从唯物主义
Just like we can explain in materialist,
物理主义的角度解释如何得到欲望
physicalist terms how to get desires
信念 以及行为层面的东西
and beliefs and the behavioral stuff down,
我们也可以解释如何得到感觉
here's how to get the feeling,
定性方面的感觉
qualitative aspect of things down, too."
物理主义者要是能够给出
It would be best if the
这样的解释 那再好不过了
physicalist could give us that kind of story.
我认为 事实上
I think the truth of the matter has to be--
目前的答案就是
I think the answer right now is,
我们还没法做出那种解释
we don't know how to give that story.
意识
Consciousness,
如果我们所说的意识
if what we mean by consciousness
就是指我们心理活动定性的方面
is this qualitative aspect of our mental life,
那么意识还是一个很大的谜团
consciousness remains a pretty big mystery.
我们不知道如何从物理主义角度去解释
We don't know how to explain it in physicalist terms.
正因如此
And it's because of that
我认为我们不应该轻视二元论者
that I think we shouldn't be dismissive of the dualist
当他们说
when the dualist says,
我们只有相信灵魂才能解释这些
"We've got to believe in souls in order to explain it."
我们不应该对此不以为然
We shouldn't be dismissive,
但也并不是说我们就应该对之深信不疑
but that's not to say that I think we should be convinced.
因为尚不知晓
Because it's one thing to say we don't yet know
如何从物理的角度去解释意识是一码事
how to explain consciousness in physical terms.
而永远不能
It's another thing to say we won't ever be able to
从物理的角度去解释意识是另一码事
explain consciousness in physical terms

.
如果我们属于后者 抱歉
If we had the latter--excuse me--
如果我们大胆放言
If we had the bold claim that
因为没有物体能看见红色 尝到蜂蜜的味道
no physical object could see red, taste honey,
而我们人类能做到 所以我们由此得出结论
then we'd have to conclude since we can do all that,
我们不是物体 或不仅仅是物体
we're not a physical object or not merely a physical object.
但我认为现在就那样说还为时尚早
But I don't think we're yet in a position to say that.
一个简单的事实就是
I think the simple fact of the matter is
我们对于意识了解甚少
we don't know enough about consciousness yet
还不知道是否能使用物理的方式对其进行解释
to know whether or not it can be explained in physical terms.
每当我想到这种情境时
When I think about this situation,
总会联想到一个类比
an analogy always occurs to me.
想象一下 我们正处在
Imagine that we're somewhere in,
比如 在14世纪人们试图去理解生命
let's say, the fourteenth century trying to understand life,
理解植物的生命
the life of plants.
一株植物是一个有生命力的实体
A plant is a living thing.
我们问自己
And we ask ourselves,
能否
"Could it possibly be that
从物质的角度来解释生命呢
life could be explained in material terms?"
这种想法简直是匪夷所思
It's got to seem very mysterious to us.
怎么可能呢
How could it be?
当我们回想14世纪时期的
When we think of the kinds of examples of material machines
各种机器
that we've got available to us in the fourteenth century,
我试着想象
I try to imagine
一个生活在14世纪的人
what would somebody in the fourteenth century
他 或她
think to himself or herself
在面对一株植物可能
when he entertains the possibility
只不过是一台机器的观点时会怎么想
that a plant might just be a machine?
然后 我们脑海里就会浮现
And then, I have this little image of
某种由齿轮构成的植物 对吧
some plant made out of gears, right?
齿轮开始转动
And the gears begin turning
随即花蕾绽放 哒 哒 哒 哒
and the bud opens, dot, dot, dot, dot.
于是就有人说
And the person's just going to say,
上帝 那不可能是个活物
"My god! That wouldn't be alive!"
所以很明显 机器不可能是具有生命力
So it's pretty obvious that no machine could be alive.
物质实体都不具有生命力
No material object could be alive.
要解释生命
In order to explain life,
我们必须诉诸原子以外的其他东西
we have to appeal to something more than just atoms.
他们那时还不知道原子呢
They didn't have atoms,
仅仅略高于物质的层面
but more than just matter.
还需要借助某些
Life requires something
非物质的 高于并超于物质的东西
immaterial above and beyond matter
来对生命进行

解释
to explain it.
那可能就是能被14世纪的人们
That would have been an understandable position
所理解的解释
to come to in the fourteenth century,
但它有可能是错的
but it would have been wrong.
在那个年代
We didn't have a clue back
我们还不知道如何从物质的角度去解释生命
then how to explain life in material terms.
但那并不表示我们永远做不到
But that didn't mean it couldn't be done.
我倾向于认为这种规律同样
I'm inclined to think the same thing
适用于解释意识的现阶段
is true right now for us and consciousness.
肯定存在某些理论可以帮助我们解释意识
I know there are theories out there.
但我认为
But my best take is
我们现在所处的境地 跟14世纪差不多
we're pretty much like in the fourteenth century.
毫无头绪
We don't really have a clue yet,
或者说 无从下手
or not much of a clue,
你如何在这种情形下开个头
as to how you could even so much as begin to--
我们不只是不知道细节如何
it's not that merely that we don't have the details worked out.
对于如何从物理角度解释意识
We don't even have the picture in broad strokes
我们甚至连笼统的粗线条轮廓
as far as consciousness is concerned,
都尚未建立起来
of how it could be done in physical terms.
但现阶段无法预见其可能
But not seeing how it's possible
并不代表永远不可能
is not the same thing as seeing that it's impossible.
如果是二元论者 他们则会走过来说
If the dualist comes and says,
你没觉得吗 一个纯粹的物理对象
"Can't you just see that it's not remotely possible,
能够拥有体验和感受性的可能性
it's not conceivably possible,
简直微乎其微 就连想想都觉得难以置信
for a purely physical object to have experiences, to have qualia?"
但我想说的是
What I want to say is,
不 我不认为那是不可能的
"No, I don't see that it's impossible.
我承认 我不知道如何去解释
I admit I don't see how to do it,
但我不认为那是不可能的
but I don't see that it's impossible."
所以我没觉得我一定要接受灵魂存在的假设
So I don't feel forced to posit the existence of a soul.
当然了 笃信灵魂的人会跑来说
Of course, the fan of the soul could come back and say,
这不公平
"But that's not fair.
问题不是
The question isn't,
这种解释可不可能
is this explanation impossible?'
问题是
The question is just,
谁的解释更合理
who's got the better explanation?'
而你们这群人根本就没能做出任何解释
You guys can't offer any kind of explanation at all, yet.
我能做出解释
I can offer an explanation.
意识是怎么一回事
How is consciousness possible?
我们都有灵魂
We have souls.
灵魂和一般物体大不相同
Souls are really very different from physical objects
所以它们能产生意识
and so th

ey can be conscious."
但是对于这一点
But at this point,
我认为最为关键的就是记住
I think it's crucial to remember the point
问题不仅在于
that it's not just the question,
谁能解释
"Who's got an explanation?"
还在于 谁的解释更合理
but, "Who's got the better explanation?"
在我们承认
And before we say that
灵魂观点更合理之前
the soul view's got the better explanation,
我们必须问问自己
we have to ask ourselves,
这个观点解释得到底如何
just how much of an explanation is it to say,
我可以解释意识
"Oh I can explain consciousness.
意识并非源自肉体
Consciousness is housed not in the body,
它源自灵魂
but in the soul."
好了 那灵魂到底是怎么产生意识的呢
Okay. "How exactly is it that a soul can be conscious?"
要是我们这么问 灵魂学说者就会说
We ask. And then the soul theorist says,
那个 嗯 呃 啊 它就是能产生
"Well, uhm.. er.. ah.. it just can."
这算不上是真正的解释
That's not really much of an explanation.
我觉得就算我是一个二元论者
I don't feel I've got any sort
我也还是不懂这番对于意识的解释
of account going here as to how consciousness works, even if I become a dualist.
如果二元论者试图
If the dualist were to start
为我们提供一个详尽的意识理论学说
offering us some elaborate theory of consciousness,
你看 这是灵魂的什么什么结构
"Well, there's these sorts of soul structures,
那是灵魂的什么什么结构
and those sorts of soul structures,
这些产生了这种感觉
and these create these sensations
那些产生了那种感觉
and those create those sensations.
这里还有一套理论
And here's a theory,"
好吧 这样的话我会认真考虑这种解释
well, then, I'll begin to take it seriously as an explanation.
但如果所有的灵魂理论家只是一味地说
But if all the soul theorist is just saying is
不不不 你们解释不了 但是我能
"Nah, nah. You guys can't explain it and I can,
因为我就觉得它是解释
because I say this is an explanation."
那我只想说
Then, I find myself wanting to say,
这种言论毫无意义 说了等于白说
"That's not really any better. That's no improvement at all."
有人提问题
There is a question or a comment.
这样很好
Good.
其问题是
So the question was--
首先 在这个问题之前他指责
First, it was the accusation before the question,
我在施行双重标准
that I'm holding a sort of double standard.
说我在辩护
I'm defending,
当我给物理主义者辩护时我会说
I'm defending the physicalist by saying,
别怪我们 我们还不知道怎么解释呢
"Don't blame us. We don't know how to explain it yet."
而又为什么不允许灵魂理论说
Why aren't I allowing the soul theory to say,
别责怪我们 我们只是还不知道怎么去解释
"Don't blame us. We do

n't know how to explain it yet."
这个问题问得好 而我的答案是
Good question. And my answer is--
有时我觉得这是个平局
And sometimes I think this one's a tie.
我认为灵魂理论者没能解释
I think the soul theorist doesn't have an explanation.
物理理论者也没能解释
The physical theorist doesn't have an explanation.
就我所见
As far as I can see,
目前还没有人能对
right now nobody's got a
意识的原理做出合理解释
good explanation about how consciousness works.
现在这仍是个未解之谜
It's a bit of a mystery right now.
所以我不是说 我希望自己没这么做
So I don't mean--I hope I haven't been doing this.
无关什么双重标准
{\c
双方旗鼓相当
it's a tie.
不过请注意 如果是平局
But notice if it's a tie,
这还是没有给出我们想要的答案
that doesn't give us what we were looking for.
毕竟 我们所寻求的是
What we were looking for,
相信灵魂存在的理由
after all, was some reason to believe in souls.
如果灵魂理论者最多只能说
And if the best the soul theorist can say is,
我不能解释 你也不能
"I can't explain it and neither can you,"
这不是一个相信灵魂存在的理由
that's not a reason to believe this side.
我们已经相信肉体的存在
We already believe there are bodies.
我们已经知道肉体可以做一些相当神奇的事情
We already know bodies can do some pretty amazing things.
我们的问题是
The question we're asking is,
有没有一个很好的理由
"Is there a good reason
让我们往已写有东西的清单上再添上几笔
to add to our list of things there are?
有没有很好的理由再加上
Is there a good reason to add
灵魂之类的非物质实体
the soul, something immaterial?"
如果灵魂主义者最为充分的理由是
And if the best that the soul theorist has is,
或许我们需要灵魂来解释些
"Maybe we need this to explain something
我认为你们不能解释的东西
that I don't see how you guys can explain,
或许这样能有些帮助
maybe this would help,
尽管我也不清楚怎样用灵魂解释
though I can't quite see how either,"
这就不是一个很有说服力的论证
that's not a very compelling argument.
所以我倾向于
So what I'm inclined to
认为 对于这个特殊的困境
think with regard to this particular strand
或说成是 对这个特定版本的
or this particular version
论证 还无法下定论
of the argument is, the jury's still out.
或许最终 在我们倾尽全力之后
Maybe at the end of the day we'll give it our best.
我们会认定 无法从物理的角度来解释意识
We'll decide you can't explain consciousness in physical terms.
我们会找到
We'll begin to work out
其他的某种非物质理论
some sort of alternative immaterial theory.
或许最终
Maybe at the end of the day
我们会认定我们需要相信灵魂

we will decide we need to believe in souls.
但此时此刻
But right now,
我不认为有证据支持这种灵魂存在的结论
I don't think the evidence supports that conclusion.
当然 还会有一些其他的可能
Still, there's other possibilities.
比如 创造力
Consider creativity.
这是某个论证
Here's another version of an argument
从推理发展为最佳解释的另一种说法
that goes from inference to the best explanation.
创造力
Creativity.
这种论证的观点是 人们具有创造力
It says, "People can be creative."
我们谱写乐章
We write new pieces of music.
我们创作诗歌
We write poems.
我们用数学去证明从未被证明过的事物
We prove things in mathematics that have never been proven before
我们探寻新的方法去证明那些定理
or we find new ways to prove these theorems
或其他诸如此类 总之 我们具有创造力
or what have you and we can be creative.
单纯的机器是没有创造力的
No mere machine can be creative.
所以我们肯定不只是单纯的机器
So we must be something more than a mere machine.
那么 问题就转到
Well, then, the question is going to be,
是否存在某种情形
"Could it be a case that there
使得物理对象在其中也具有创造力
could be a physical object that's creative?"
我倾向于认为
And I'm inclined to think,
有 实际上 当我在谈会下象棋计算机时
"Yes." In fact, I already suggested as much
我已经暗示过很多次了
when I talked about the chess-playing computers.
国际象棋程序会思考如何下子
The chess-playing computer programs think of moves,
会想出没有人曾想到的策略
think of strategies no one's thought of before.
从最直接最自然的意义上理解
In the most straightforward natural meaning of the term,
我们不得不说 我想
we have to say--I think the program
那个打败世界冠军的计算机程序叫深弗里茨
that beat the world champion was called Deep Fritz.
当深弗里茨打败克拉姆尼克时
So when Deep Fritz beat Kramnik,
它是具有创造力的
it was being creative.
它走出了
It made a move
克拉姆尼克没想到
that Kramnik didn't think of
或许是从没有人想到的一步棋
and perhaps nobody had.
这也许是象棋史上前所未有的一步棋
Perhaps no chess game before had had this move.
除了下棋 电脑还可以做许多事情
Computers can do other sorts of things of this sort.
有些程序可以证明数学定理
There are mathematical theorem-proving programs.
如今 这些程序都可以证明一些
Now, some of these things can prove things
令我头大的数学题了
that are mathematically way over my head.
不过我们还是说些简单的 比如勾股定理
But let's take something simple like the Pythagorean Theorem,
我们中学里都学过的
which we all learned in high school.
我们都学习过
And we learned how to prove